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	<title>Comments on: RAW vs. JPG: Print shootout</title>
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	<description>Photography is for everyone.</description>
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		<title>By: Jaime C</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-203210</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 13:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-203210</guid>
		<description>If sharpness was the variable you were looking at; could it be that when you processed the RAW images you tweaked it for more sharpness? You could do the same in camera. And who saves their images 10 times? There is no reason for re-saving an image. You work on an image then save once as psd or work file and then you output.  At the very least I&#039;d start over with my original JPEG if I had to make changes. You don&#039;t pile on one save after the other. It doesn&#039;t make sense. Raw vs JPEG boils down to the fear of missing the perfect shot because you think your settings are wrong. &quot;Garbage in garbage out;&quot; you can&#039;t fix everything in post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If sharpness was the variable you were looking at; could it be that when you processed the RAW images you tweaked it for more sharpness? You could do the same in camera. And who saves their images 10 times? There is no reason for re-saving an image. You work on an image then save once as psd or work file and then you output.  At the very least I&#8217;d start over with my original JPEG if I had to make changes. You don&#8217;t pile on one save after the other. It doesn&#8217;t make sense. Raw vs JPEG boils down to the fear of missing the perfect shot because you think your settings are wrong. &#8220;Garbage in garbage out;&#8221; you can&#8217;t fix everything in post.</p>
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		<title>By: Rocío López-Bretzlaff</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-201095</link>
		<dc:creator>Rocío López-Bretzlaff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 02:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-201095</guid>
		<description>I think this article brings up a topic for which much confusion has existed for some time. The experiment, as informal as illustrative as it is, as well as the validity of some of the feedback received are all testament to the many perspectives a single issue can encounter. I am adding with this reply my own comments coming from the perspective of having worked in the publishing and commercial printing industries for many years and of most recently photo manipulation and printing to smaller printers.

I think there should not be an issue of RAW vs. JPG. There is a place for both.

There is great value to RAW photography mostly because it provides wider –much wider– features for colour adjustment and colour correction.  Anything from the hues, tones, casts, shadows, mid-tones, lights, white balance, etc. can be manipulated and adjusted to a finer level of detail. This provides great opportunity to improve the quality of photos, even when they are good photos to start with. 
There is also good value in keeping the RAW files as the ORIGINAL SOURCE from which other images are generated.  At different times and under different circumstances or intentions the same image may be required to be reproduced in a different format and size for a different type of ‘publication.’  (‘publication’ being to web/digital or print to paper). 

That being said, and because of file size, one must think what type of photographs are best to be shot in RAW mode. For instance, I tend to shoot family gathering photos mostly in JPG because the intended use is just to share a memory in an easy, quick way.  However, if I want to shoot a memorable photo of a family member, then I may shoot a mix of RAW and JPG to keep my options open. I can always keep RAWS of the best shots and discard the ones I don’t totally approve.  Nowadays, with the larger size memory sticks one can still shoot hundreds of photos with both RAW &amp; JPG. The issue here is mostly organizational and of developing a process in which sorting to keep only the best RAW shots is part of the photographic process.

To me, it will depend on what I intend to do with my photo and what process and/or media I will use to ‘publish’ (web, desktop printer, large-size colour printer, or commercial printer) and I will look to immediate needs and future possibilities.  I can adjust the photo to my liking in RAW, then save to JPG to print in my desktop printer, or even to send to print to a photo finishing lab or save it to CD for distribution. If that same photo was to be used for a publication going to print to a commercial printer, then I would, from the RAW version, save it as a TIFF, as TIFFS are the recommended format for printing photographs in a commercial printing (most printers and most documents prepared for commercial printing, will not accept JPGs, PNGs or RAW files). Nowadays, one can save to PDF and PDFs are accepted in the ‘ripping process’ of images going to commercial print. So, although you might think you only want to have a few reproductions printed now, you may want to think forward and prepare for future possibilities –in case you become a famous photographer and will need to publish a book sometime in the near or far future... who knows?!   ;-)

However, if you were to print your photos in some of the larger “colour copiers” then JPG still is an acceptable format. If you intend to post your photo in the web, then PNG or JPG are the formats to use. So, in summary, the best format will be dependent upon the intended use for the photograph, and for the same reason, it only makes sense to keep a RAW image (which will always keep the most options for colour adjustment depending on the type of print) as the SOURCE file.

Just to close and going back to JPG degradation, just think about the scenario in which you have a perfect JPG, unfortunately, the output equipment you are using is not matching the colours of the JPG you see and like in your computer. Then, even if it is only for printing on that machine, you will need to adjust the colours of your JPG. So you then save it again even if it is as ‘save-as’ and in doing that, you are producing the next generation of JPG. Therefore new compression will take place and the image will lose quality. 
 
And in my view... that is how it goes and goes....
Rocío López-Bretzlaff
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this article brings up a topic for which much confusion has existed for some time. The experiment, as informal as illustrative as it is, as well as the validity of some of the feedback received are all testament to the many perspectives a single issue can encounter. I am adding with this reply my own comments coming from the perspective of having worked in the publishing and commercial printing industries for many years and of most recently photo manipulation and printing to smaller printers.</p>
<p>I think there should not be an issue of RAW vs. JPG. There is a place for both.</p>
<p>There is great value to RAW photography mostly because it provides wider –much wider– features for colour adjustment and colour correction.  Anything from the hues, tones, casts, shadows, mid-tones, lights, white balance, etc. can be manipulated and adjusted to a finer level of detail. This provides great opportunity to improve the quality of photos, even when they are good photos to start with.<br />
There is also good value in keeping the RAW files as the ORIGINAL SOURCE from which other images are generated.  At different times and under different circumstances or intentions the same image may be required to be reproduced in a different format and size for a different type of ‘publication.’  (‘publication’ being to web/digital or print to paper). </p>
<p>That being said, and because of file size, one must think what type of photographs are best to be shot in RAW mode. For instance, I tend to shoot family gathering photos mostly in JPG because the intended use is just to share a memory in an easy, quick way.  However, if I want to shoot a memorable photo of a family member, then I may shoot a mix of RAW and JPG to keep my options open. I can always keep RAWS of the best shots and discard the ones I don’t totally approve.  Nowadays, with the larger size memory sticks one can still shoot hundreds of photos with both RAW &amp; JPG. The issue here is mostly organizational and of developing a process in which sorting to keep only the best RAW shots is part of the photographic process.</p>
<p>To me, it will depend on what I intend to do with my photo and what process and/or media I will use to ‘publish’ (web, desktop printer, large-size colour printer, or commercial printer) and I will look to immediate needs and future possibilities.  I can adjust the photo to my liking in RAW, then save to JPG to print in my desktop printer, or even to send to print to a photo finishing lab or save it to CD for distribution. If that same photo was to be used for a publication going to print to a commercial printer, then I would, from the RAW version, save it as a TIFF, as TIFFS are the recommended format for printing photographs in a commercial printing (most printers and most documents prepared for commercial printing, will not accept JPGs, PNGs or RAW files). Nowadays, one can save to PDF and PDFs are accepted in the ‘ripping process’ of images going to commercial print. So, although you might think you only want to have a few reproductions printed now, you may want to think forward and prepare for future possibilities –in case you become a famous photographer and will need to publish a book sometime in the near or far future&#8230; who knows?!   ;-)</p>
<p>However, if you were to print your photos in some of the larger “colour copiers” then JPG still is an acceptable format. If you intend to post your photo in the web, then PNG or JPG are the formats to use. So, in summary, the best format will be dependent upon the intended use for the photograph, and for the same reason, it only makes sense to keep a RAW image (which will always keep the most options for colour adjustment depending on the type of print) as the SOURCE file.</p>
<p>Just to close and going back to JPG degradation, just think about the scenario in which you have a perfect JPG, unfortunately, the output equipment you are using is not matching the colours of the JPG you see and like in your computer. Then, even if it is only for printing on that machine, you will need to adjust the colours of your JPG. So you then save it again even if it is as ‘save-as’ and in doing that, you are producing the next generation of JPG. Therefore new compression will take place and the image will lose quality. </p>
<p>And in my view&#8230; that is how it goes and goes&#8230;.<br />
Rocío López-Bretzlaff<br />
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada</p>
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		<title>By: Hans Smits</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-193179</link>
		<dc:creator>Hans Smits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 15:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-193179</guid>
		<description>I like to add on the JPG 10x save subject. The real problem with multiple JPG savings start when the compression quality is changing each time. Maintaining the same quality for the save as used for the original will limit the &quot;damage&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like to add on the JPG 10x save subject. The real problem with multiple JPG savings start when the compression quality is changing each time. Maintaining the same quality for the save as used for the original will limit the &#8220;damage&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-186152</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-186152</guid>
		<description>Does anybody know a photo book service that would print off the raw files instead of compressing them on JPG?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anybody know a photo book service that would print off the raw files instead of compressing them on JPG?</p>
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		<title>By: Sofia</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-158072</link>
		<dc:creator>Sofia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-158072</guid>
		<description>Nice Post!!
I like JPG better because it&#039;s ready to be printed, easy to store in a cd or easy access to be display on my  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edgetechcorp.com/accessories/digital-picture-frame.asp&quot; title=&quot;Digital Frame&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Digital Frame&lt;/a&gt; In Raw I think it&#039;s unknown the limitations this one may have in the future. SC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice Post!!<br />
I like JPG better because it&#8217;s ready to be printed, easy to store in a cd or easy access to be display on my  <a href="http://www.edgetechcorp.com/accessories/digital-picture-frame.asp" title="Digital Frame" rel="nofollow">Digital Frame</a> In Raw I think it&#8217;s unknown the limitations this one may have in the future. SC</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-120980</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-120980</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you asked non-photographers as they are, in some ways, more important in terms of their opinions than other photographers.  Most collectors are not photographers themselves.  Most of my photographer friends are completely geeky, and can&#039;t spot a good photograph if it bites them in the ass.    For a long time I shot NEF exclusively and used Capture NX.  Sure, at 100% there are some differences, but at 20X30&quot; I can see NO difference worth mentioning.  In fact, I find the JPEGs have slightly better colour, and that includes after colour correcting the NEFs to match.  The main thing to remember is that it is irrelevant what format you &quot;capture&quot; the shot in because even pros send an 8-bit tiff to their clients or agencies.  Nobody in their right mind would send a &quot;NEF&quot; or &quot;CR2&quot; file.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you asked non-photographers as they are, in some ways, more important in terms of their opinions than other photographers.  Most collectors are not photographers themselves.  Most of my photographer friends are completely geeky, and can&#8217;t spot a good photograph if it bites them in the ass.    For a long time I shot NEF exclusively and used Capture NX.  Sure, at 100% there are some differences, but at 20X30&#8243; I can see NO difference worth mentioning.  In fact, I find the JPEGs have slightly better colour, and that includes after colour correcting the NEFs to match.  The main thing to remember is that it is irrelevant what format you &#8220;capture&#8221; the shot in because even pros send an 8-bit tiff to their clients or agencies.  Nobody in their right mind would send a &#8220;NEF&#8221; or &#8220;CR2&#8243; file.</p>
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		<title>By: Conventional Wisdom is Wrong</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-118770</link>
		<dc:creator>Conventional Wisdom is Wrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 21:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-118770</guid>
		<description>The &quot;conventional wisdom&quot; about how re-saving a jpeg loses quality is a complete myth.

JPEG compression is only re-applied to an image who&#039;s data is either manipulated or re-cropped with a top left cropping coordinate that is not a multiple of 8. That&#039;s right, you can even re-crop a jpeg without losing quality, provided you pick a top left point that is a multiple of 8 so as to not break the 8x8 grid division that JPEG internally uses to sample the image. If you do nothing to the image and simply re-save it, no compression would be applied. If this isn&#039;t the case, your image editing program should be deleted immediately because it&#039;s very obvious/easy for software to decide not to re-compress an image if nothing has changed.

This is actually all very well documented in the wiki article on JPEGs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;conventional wisdom&#8221; about how re-saving a jpeg loses quality is a complete myth.</p>
<p>JPEG compression is only re-applied to an image who&#8217;s data is either manipulated or re-cropped with a top left cropping coordinate that is not a multiple of 8. That&#8217;s right, you can even re-crop a jpeg without losing quality, provided you pick a top left point that is a multiple of 8 so as to not break the 8&#215;8 grid division that JPEG internally uses to sample the image. If you do nothing to the image and simply re-save it, no compression would be applied. If this isn&#8217;t the case, your image editing program should be deleted immediately because it&#8217;s very obvious/easy for software to decide not to re-compress an image if nothing has changed.</p>
<p>This is actually all very well documented in the wiki article on JPEGs (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Ratsters</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-68606</link>
		<dc:creator>Ratsters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 13:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-68606</guid>
		<description>Finally, concrete samples of what RAW and JPG actually look like; thanks a million for taking the time to build such a good dossier on the subject. In just a couple of photos, you have demonstrated the Pros and the Cons of both formats.
Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, concrete samples of what RAW and JPG actually look like; thanks a million for taking the time to build such a good dossier on the subject. In just a couple of photos, you have demonstrated the Pros and the Cons of both formats.<br />
Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve G</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-17451</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 05:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-17451</guid>
		<description>So I wonder what would happen if you printed at 16x20 or even larger and ran this test.  Is there a difference in RAW vs JPEG at very large sizes like this if you have a modest  6Mp or 8MP DSLR?  Can I get larger high quality enlargements with RAW vs JPEG?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I wonder what would happen if you printed at 16&#215;20 or even larger and ran this test.  Is there a difference in RAW vs JPEG at very large sizes like this if you have a modest  6Mp or 8MP DSLR?  Can I get larger high quality enlargements with RAW vs JPEG?</p>
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		<title>By: Tamer</title>
		<link>http://photodoto.com/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/comment-page-1/#comment-6069</link>
		<dc:creator>Tamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2006 00:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photodoto.com/index.php/2006/08/03/raw-vs-jpg-print-shootout/#comment-6069</guid>
		<description>I think we can use both Raw and Jpeg, when I take family pictures I prefer JPG, because in the future I want my children to be able to pop the CD and see the pictures and print them. In Raw you never know, you are actually taking  a chance if the file can be read 20-30 years from now. 

If I want a art photo and I want to tweak this thing in PS CS2 and planing to make a fine art large print from it i will shoot Raw. But I know some professional photographers who take 10000s of 10000s of pictures only shoot in JPG. Processing all these pics will make you insane.  How about making a great shot in the first place as a real photographer rather than trying to fix your boo boo in photoshop. 

So I shoot 90% JPG  and 10% Raw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we can use both Raw and Jpeg, when I take family pictures I prefer JPG, because in the future I want my children to be able to pop the CD and see the pictures and print them. In Raw you never know, you are actually taking  a chance if the file can be read 20-30 years from now. </p>
<p>If I want a art photo and I want to tweak this thing in PS CS2 and planing to make a fine art large print from it i will shoot Raw. But I know some professional photographers who take 10000s of 10000s of pictures only shoot in JPG. Processing all these pics will make you insane.  How about making a great shot in the first place as a real photographer rather than trying to fix your boo boo in photoshop. </p>
<p>So I shoot 90% JPG  and 10% Raw</p>
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